Strange occurence on home circuit - Page 2

kactuskid · #11 (**permalink**) 03-07-2005, 11:08 PM

They're probably sylvania breakers as well. So, to measure whether the breaker is actually allowing power to pass even when it's open you'll need to buy a multimeter or a neon light voltage tester that can measure up to 240 volts. You should buy both cause they'll prove beneficial on other projects. Open both the #9 and #8 breakers. Then measure from the screw on each of the breakers where the wire connects to the neutral/ground bus bar. If you read 120 volts or get a light then you still have power. This would indicate the breaker is faulty. If you don't read any power with the breakers open, then make sure that the hot wires of this 3 conductor cable actually does go to the #9 and #8 breakers and not some other breaker in the panel. You may not be opening the proper breaker to begin with. Just something else to look at.

As for the rest of these breakers. You need to identify all of the circuits that are multiwire type. Then they all need to be installed on double pole breakers. This is a huge safety factor so don't wait on this.

I also notice you have some tandem breakers, those are the skinny ones that have 2 breakers in a regular slot. Is this a multiwire circuit that's connected to these as well cause it looks like it but I can't tell cause can't see if this cable also has a neutral wire with it. If it is, then this is a real problem cause these two breakers are operating on the same phase since they're in the same slot. Multiwire circuits need to be on opposite phases and take up two full slots using the double pole breakers. You've got plenty of room left in the panel to fix this though.

Gotta ask, who in the heck wired up this panel, they didn't really know what the heck they were doing. Let me know what you find out.

One last thing, is this your main electrical panel or is this a sub panel off the main.

bogie002 · #12 (**permalink**) 03-24-2005, 10:40 AM

Sorry to wait so long to reply. Things got a bit hectic around here. I broke down and called an electrician

And Im not real secure with Washington's practices when it comes to wiring. I checked the panel with these breakers off and still had voltage at this box. The electrician was not at all surprised by all the multiwire ciruits nor the way they were done. He said that it was normal practice.

He did however find that there was a wire from yet another circuit tied into this box [B)] He really didnt have an explanation for this but said if we just disconnected it and capped it off all should be well.

Its been a couple of weeks and the house is still standing. I feel a little better about the situation but, I will be changing out those breakers once this project is done. I understand how this works and he even adgreed to how dangerous the situation could be.

Kactuskid, to answer a few of those questions.

Yes one of the multiwire circuits is on a tandem breaker. (On the to-do list)

This is a main panel... there is a sub panel coming of of it holding breakers for 3 or 4 220v circuits.

As far as who wired the house, looks to me like original work that would have been done back in the 80's. Go figure...

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and for so patiently explaining all this Kactuskid. Ive learned alot from this experience and hopefully can make this a safer situation.

Thanks

Bogie

kactuskid · #13 (**permalink**) 03-24-2005, 12:38 PM

Hey Bogie, glad to see you're back, I was wondering what the heck had happened to you.

I'm glad you hired an electrician, you had quite the mess there and it's good to get experianced eyes looking at it. When you said the electrican wasn't surprized and thought it normal practice on the multiwire circuits, You do mean he still thought what you had was wrong don't you, but that he's seen that type of mess before. I sure hope that's what you meant.

One matter you need to take care of right away though is that tandem breaker with the multiwire attached to it. This is a really dangerous situation. Since multiwire circuits are supposed to be 180 degrees out of phase, it's safe for them to share the same neutral wire. But if you have a multiwire circuit connected on a tandem breaker, these two circuits are not longer 180 degrees out of phase and this means you're placing a double duty load on the neutral wire, which means that this wire is gonna be heated up way more than it should be and can break down and even cause a fire. So please, change this breaker out and install a double pole breaker in it's place before you have problems you don't wanna have.

Since you don't have space beneath this breaker to install a double pole, you're gonna need to move breakers to the other side of the main buss bar, and you need to make sure that the multiwire breakers are stacked one on top of the other with a handle tie to keep it all safe.

So another wire was bringing power into your junction box. Disconnecting it was a good idea, but I would of wanted to know which breaker controlled the power to this wire. Just to make sure it wasn't a multiwire circuit.

What all did the electrician do for you besides disconnect the wire, did he move some of these breakers around and put handle ties between them?

So you understand now about how these buggers work and that you need to install new double pole breakers or at least handle ties between two breakers, I'm glad. And I'm glad you learned alot and are getting it all taken care of. Let us know if you need anything else and thanks for the feedback.