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Thread: Help!! kerosene monitor mpi 22 unit issue

  1. #1
    savvymom is offline New Member
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    Question Help!! kerosene monitor mpi 22 unit issue

    HI I am having issues with my heater after i think my 7 year old son may have pressed the on/off button quite a few times when i turn it on it starts to run like usually but after the burner light lights up all the bars it clicks off and the burner light starts blinking. We have almost a full tank of gas and there are no error codes or anything like that. I was wondering if it is possible to flood it or can the pilot light not be lit because i cant see any flame in the little window in the front?? I tried pressing the reset button on the lower right side of unit but nothing has helped Please any help would be greatly appreciated as i really dont have the money to spend on a technician Thank u in advance

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    Nestor is offline Handyman
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    "or can the pilot light not be lit because i cant see any flame in the little window in the front??"

    I know absolutely nothing about your MPI 22 kerosene heater. But, I do know a tiny little bit about gas fired heating equipment like furnaces, boilers and hot water heaters.

    The way to understand the gas valve, whether it be a gas valve on a natural gas fired water heater, furnace, or boiler, or a kerosene gas valve on a kerosene fired space heater is that the valve consists of two separate valves connected in series. That is, one valve is downstream of the other valve, so that the first valve has to be open before fuel can flow through it to the second valve.

    The first valve in the series is typically called the "safety" or "safety valve". Gas ( or kerosene) has to flow through this safety valve before it can get to the second valve that controls flow to the main burner trays of the heater.

    That safety valve is an electromagnetic valve, and it's held open by voltage produced by the thermocouple or thermopile sitting in the pilot light flame. As long as the pilot light heats the thermocouple or thermopile to produce sufficient voltage to keep that safety valve open, the heater knows that the gas flowing through that safety valve is burning and not accumulating in the room to eventually cause a gas explosion.

    That is, as long as the thermocouple or thermopile is in the pilot light flame, it should get hot enough to produce sufficient voltage to energize that "safety" electromagnetic valve, and keep it open, thereby providing a continuous flow of fuel to the pilot light.

    And, when you turn the heater on, or it's own thermostat senses that it needs to come on to heat up the room, gas or kerosene can then flow through the safety valve to the main gas valve, which also opens to allows gas or kerosene to flow to the main burner trays (where the pilot light ignites that gas or kerosene) to get the main burner trays burning.

    BUT...
    (big but there)
    It's normal for the thermocouple or thermopile in the pilot light to gradually produce less and less voltage as the thermocouple or thermopile gets older. Once it gets so old that the voltage produced by the thermocouple or thermopile isn't sufficient to keep that safety valve open, the pilot light goes out and the heater won't work anymore.

    That's because if there's insufficient voltage produced by the thermocouple or thermopile, the safety valve closes, and with the safety valve closed, gas or kerosene can't flow through the safety valve to the main valve and then on to the burner trays. It can't even flow through the safety valve to the pilot light. So, even though you might turn the heater on, or even if it's own thermostat is telling it to turn on, as long as the safety valve is closed, no fuel can flow to the pilot light or through the main valve to the burner trays.

    You normally need to replace the thermocouple or thermopile so that they generate sufficient voltage to keep that safety valve open. With the safety valve open, gas can flow through it and on to the burner trays, thereby allowing your heater to operate properly.

    So, if you're not seeing a pilot light in the sight glass of this heater, then your pilot light appears to be going out, and that's normally because the thermocouple of thermopile that sits inside the pilot light flame needs to be replaced.

    Get the manufacturer's 1-800 customer service phone number and confirm that your heater uses a thermocouple or thermopile sitting in the pilot light flame to generate the voltage needed to keep the safety valve open. If so, then you'll need to get a new thermocouple or thermopile to fix your heater. Confirm that's the probable cause of your pilot light going out with Customer Service. Find out where to order a new thermocouple or thermopile to install in your heater.

    Now, just for your info...
    A thermocouple or thermopile is simply a device that produces voltage when placed in a hot environment, like a flame. Each piece of natural gas or propane or kerosene fired heating equipment will have either a thermocouple or a thermopile sitting in it's pilot light, never both. Basically, all the thermocouples you're likely to come across produce about the same 22 millivolts and all the thermopiles you're likely to come across produce about the same 1.2 volts. So, you can use a longer thermocouple or a longer thermopile if one is available, but you can't use a shorter one if it's not long enough to reach from the pilot light flame to the gas valve.

    Replacing the thermocouple or thermopile is a simple matter of either pulling it straight out of it's holder or unscrewing it from it's holder. It unscrews the same way as a light bulb; counter clockwise.

    If you don't see a pilot light flame in the sight glass of your heater when it's not "ON" and actively heating your room, then your pilot light is out, and the usual cause for that is that the thermocouple or thermopile that sits inside the pilot light flame is too old and needs to be replaced.

    Hope this helps.

    If it's a bad thermocouple or thermopile, your 7 year old couldn't have caused the problem even if he wanted to. It's normal for thermocouples and thermopiles to lose voltage as they get older, and this is what keeps heating contractors busy every autumn until about November. They're just running around from house to house replacing old thermocouples or thermopiles so that furnaces and boilers work properly again.

    PS: A thermocouple is simply two different kinds of metal connected together. When you heat that connection, the thermocouple produces a tiny voltage of about 22 millivolts DC. A thermopile is nothing more than a whole bunch of thermocouples connected in series. When you heat a thermopile, it just creates a whole bunch of voltage increases all connected in series, thereby generating a much larger voltage than a thermocouple could, or about 1.2 volts DC.

    Furnaces and boilers tend to use thermocouples because they have a separate 24 VAC transformer to provide power to open the "main" valve inside the gas valve. Hot water heaters, especially commercial hot water heaters, tend to use thermopiles that generate more voltage because they don't have 24 VAC power available to them and so they use the power generated by the thermopile to operate BOTH the safety and main electromagnetic valves inside the gas valve.
    Last edited by Nestor; 06-05-2012 at 02:11 AM.

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    HayZee518 is offline Deity
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    Monitor heater

    Unplug the heater and plug it back in. This will reset the computer. Pressing the red button on the side does nothing but release the fuel lockout. When you plug the heater back in, press the on/off once, press clear, temp/time, temp up until you reach your desired set point, then press set. the combustion blower will come on, go through a purge cycle, then attempt to start. You may hear a clicking noise. This is normal until the pump primes and starts to pump fuel to the burner mat. The combustion pot should feel a little bit warm on the outside, where the two wires go inside to the igniter. After about a minute you should see a flame through the viewing window. The heater will switch into high heat then throttle down when it comes near to the setpoint. An overshoot of a couple of degrees is normal.
    Nestor - we appreciate your knowledge of gas valves, but unfortunately there is no gas valve in this heater.
    This is a directly vented kerosene heater. The heat that comes off this is fan forced by means of a finned heat exchanger.
    Last edited by HayZee518; 06-05-2012 at 03:59 AM.

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    hawkins111 is offline Journeyman
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    Monitor 22 problems

    Savvymom,

    The answer your question about flooding the heater is “Yes you can.” If the igniter is not working every time you try to start the heater, fuel is pumped into the burner. If the stove does not light the fuel builds up in the burner. You can only try this 2 or 3 times before the fuel level spills over the air holes and floods the air chamber. Now you have a BIG mess.

    To your question about a “pilot light”: a Monitor M22 heater does not have a pilot light. Ignition is brought about by a heating element that gets white hot. You can not see the igniter. You may be able to feel it by feeling around the two white wires entering the combustion chamber near the bottom.

    Pushing the Red button on the sump is another BIG problem. When you push the button you are opening a valve straight from the fuel tank. Too much of this will flood the sump. The rule of thumb for that Red button is, “One time for one second, that’s it.”

    Due to your limited knowledge of the Monitor heater, you should find a Monitor heater repairman to help you out. There are several different things that could be the problem, none of which can be accomplished by a homeowner that has limited knowledge of the Monitor system. Since your heater is a M22, I am sure it will need a combustion chamber overhaul. If a heater shop does this it will cost around $200 to $250.

    Stay warm,

    Tom

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    hawkins111 is offline Journeyman
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    M22 trouble

    Savvymom,

    Did you ever get to the bottom of the M22 trouble?

    Tom

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