Tank won't fill?

[troyberg]

Looking for possible reasons our toilet tank won't fill? I disconnected the small line from the water shut-off to the tank & checked for blockage, and nothing. I then tried turning the shut-off valve "on" and the water wasn't flowing ... toilet is in the basement so I doubt that it's frozen (it was -8 overnight) but I can't think of anything else. Help!!!

[LazyPup]

You have already checked the water supply valve and water line so we can rule that out and now concentrate on the tank fill valve.

Question,,,is any water entering the tank? If so, check the flapper valve in the bottom of the tank, it may be stuck open and the water is draining out as it fills. Solution- reset the flapper.
If there is no water entering the tank take the lid off the tank and check the float mechanism. If the float happens to be stuck in the up (Full tank) position the valve will not open. Press down lightly on the float and it should fall to the bottom and the valve open. If that is not the problem it is an internal problem in the float valve.

If you have the old ballcock style fill valve it is often very difficutl to get the valve body open to service, and equally difficult to find replacement parts. The simple solution is to remove the bad fill valve and replace with a universal replacement fill valve such as a fluidmaster fill valve.

The universal replacement valves can be bought at any hardware or home supply store for about $10 in a complete kit. Installation is very simple and straitforward, requiring only a pair of pliers and about 15 to 20 minutes time.

If you already have a Fluidmaster replacement fill valve you can get a replacement rubber disphram for about $1. To replace the diaphram, turn the water off at the wall stop, pry the black cap off the top of the fluidmaster fill valve, lift out the white valve mechanism and remove the old rubber diapram. Insert the new diaphram (Carefully note the needle valve- it goes through a small hole in the diaphram). press the valve assembly back in and snap the top on again. Turn the water on and your done.

I am including an illustration on how to replace the valve.

[troyberg]

Thanks, but I don't think the problem is in the tank. As I mentioned in my first post, when I disconnected the line that runs from the tank to the wall and turned the shut-off valve back to "open". there was still no water reaching the shut off valve.

[LazyPup]

If there is no water reaching the shutoff valve and you have the temps you stated probably the line is frozen somewhere. If you can access the line to trace it, follow it back to the next valve upstream of the toilet and see if you have water pressure there, If so, the freeze will be between those two points. If not, continue tracing upstream till you find the point of the freeze. Look for places where the line runs close to an outside wall, especially anywhere it passes through or runs close to an outside masonary wall. Look for any areas where there may be an opening allowing outside air to draft in against the pipe.

Once you locate the point where its frozen if its iron pipe or copper pipe you can lightly heat the pipe with a propane torch (Do not use a torch to heat PVC, CPVC or PEX tubing) or wrap the line with rags and pour boiling water on the rags.

I would strongly suggest you locate a zone valve upstream of the point of the freeze before you thaw the line. It that line happens to be ruptured at the point of the freeze it will leak immediately when the ice is melted.

Once you have located and thawed the line i would suggest insulating the line in that area to prevent future problems.

[troyberg]

That's what i was afraid of -- unfortunately, our basement is completely finished and I don't have access to the pipes.

[LazyPup]

Sometimes a fully finished basement can introduce a problem. Once the basement ceiling is closed in it prevents residual heat from the basement from getting into the space between the basement ceiling and upper subfloor. That can then be compounded by minor air gaps in the sill plate on the top of the footer wall. Cold air gets into the space and is trapped in there. If the basement ceiling is attached directly to the bottom of the floor joists there is not much you can do, however, if the basement ceiling is even slightly suspended below the joists you may want to consider installing a couple grilles to allow some of the heated air from the basement to rise into the cavity between ceiling and floor. That would not only help protect the piping but it would also help keep the upper floors from being so cold.

As for you frozen water line, you might try leaving a faucett in the basement bathroom slightly open. That way as the pipe warms up even slightly during the day it would allow the water to flow, which will aid in thawing the pipe. Once even the slightest flow begins the ice should thaw relatively quickly.

A word of caution here though. You definitely want to keep a close eye on it because the pipe could have burst from freezing. If that is so, it will leak immediately after thawing begins. You will then have to valve that section off at a zone valve or shut it off at the main until the ruptured pipe can be repaired.