New tub installation...questions...

[asprentz]

I am thinking about ripping the old fiberglass tub/walls out of my bathroom and installing a new enamel coated steel tub. I'm not worried about tearing out the old one, but am worried about installing a new tub. How hard is it? My husband has no interest at all in doing this or even helping me, so it's up to me. I've already replaced the toilet and put new sinks in the bathroom and kitchen myself with no big troubles, so would this be something I could tackle? If this is too big of a job for me, then my next option would be to paint the gold fiberglass tub/walls. Which would be easier? Cheaper? I'm in SE Michigan.

ps. I want the steel tub because it's easier to clean the ungodly amount of rust and hard water we have here from our well.

[LazyPup]

asprentz

There are many variables to consider when determining how hard it is to set a tub. Due to there extreme weight cast iron tubs can be rather difficult for two experienced men (or women). On the other hand, acrylics, fiberglass or steel tubs are not nearly as heavy. In fact, of the three, often steel proves to be the lightest weight. In most cases it is not their weight, but rather their physical size that proves to be difficult.

Begin by reading the manufacturers "rough in specifications" thoroughly.

Tubs are installed directly against the studs and must fit relatively tight so the backerboard above the tub will extend over the edge of the tub apron.

Usually you begin by installing a horizontal 2 x 4 on the rear stud wall to support the underside of the tub apron. Properly leveling the support ledger is critical to insure the finished tub sits perfectly level, otherwise you will always have trouble with water from the shower landing on the apron and spilling over the front of the tub to the floor.

Getting the tub into the bathroom and setting it into place can be very awkward and really should have two people on that step.

Once the tub is set into place it is secured to the studs. Fiberglass or acrylic tubs have holes through the lip of the apron for support screws. For steel tubs they have small metal clips that fasten to the apron and are then screwed to the studs.

You stated that you are located in S.E. Michigan so I am guessing your house has a basement or the bathroom is on a second floor. Hopefully you will be able to make a service access panel either directly below the drain end of the tub or through the wall from an adjoining room. If you have the access hole installing a conventional slip joint type drain & waste and trap will not be too difficult. If you cannot create an access panel you will be required to install a glued in drain & waste and P-trap. (the code prohibits slip joints in a concealed location.) If you require the glued in type drain & waste and P-trap it must be installed before the tub is set in place and the drain and overflow openings MUST BE positioned exactly, as they cannot be adjusted.

The code requires that the walls in the tub opening must be waterproofed to a height of 72" above the drain. If you tub has a one piece shower enclosure that meets code and is installed directly agains the studs in the same manner as the tub. Water resistant sheetrock (greenboard) may not be used in the 72" water tight area. You must first install building paper as a water resistant barrier on the studs, than apply concrete backerboard to the 72" height. The backerboard must be installed with corrosion resistant fasteners and all fasteners heads, seams and joints must be sealed with a water resistant sealer. The remaining portions of the bathroom may be finished with water resistant sheetrock, but you MAY NOT put a vapor barrier behind the sheetrock. (water resistant sheetrock may not be put on the ceiling if the studs are greater than 12" on center).

While it is seldom done, fiberglass tubs and shower enclosures can be easily restored to original luster. The surface finish of a fiberglass tub is a product called "Gel Coat". It is the same Gel coat material used to make the finish on fiberglass boats and fiberglass automobile bodies such as the chevrolet corvett. In time the finish becomes dried out and chalky looking. You can restore it by buffing it out with fiberglass rubbing compound. Once you have it buffed out apply a light coat of fibeglass wax on all surfaces except the floor of the tub, as you do not want to create a slip & fall hazard.

If the fiberglass will not buff out it can be painted with marine "Topside Paint" in the same manner as restoring a boat. (Be care not to get marine bottom paint. Bottom paints contain toxins that are intended to leach into water to prevent barnacles, algae or other marine growths on the bottom of boat hulls.)

Here is a little tip. To maintain luster, prevent soap scum and to prevent the tub and enclosure walls from drying out and chalking, after you clean and dry the fiberglass occassionally give it a light spray and buff with an aerosol furniture polish. Just be careful not to get the polish on the floor of the tub.

[asprentz]

Wow, thanks so much for the very informative reply! I don't have a basement, I'm on a slab. There already is access hole through a bedroom closet. My reasons for wanting a new tub is 1) the old one is harvest gold, and I've already replaced the gold toilet and gold sink with new white ones. and 2) I have a leak, a huge one that I CANNOT stop in the tub.

I need help. Before I started messing around with the tub, it had a very slow moving drain. Then even after trying to unplug the drain using various things, I got frustrated and pulled the drain cover off. It wasn't easy, let me tell you. The water here is so hard and so rusty, that drain plug took every bit of strength I had and a lot of choice words to get off. Finally, it broke off. I was then able to unscrew the rest of it. Now, I went and got a new drain plug. Put the rubber washer under the tub, through the hole, then put some plumbers tape around the thread and also put some plumbers putty under the lip of the drain plug. At first, I thought the leak was fixed, until I filled it up and got in the bath. As soon as that happened, I heard a loud gush of water, underneath the tub, and sure enough it was leaking like a sieve. I've been messing with this bathtub for months now, and I CANNOT get the leak to stop. I cannot see under the tub from the access hole, and where it was leaking before, it has stopped, but now it's leaking from somewhere else, and leaking bad. I'm afraid I will have to replace the old rust crusted pipes underneath. Can you tell anything from this picture? What do I need to do? At this point, I feel like ripping the whole bleeping thing out and just giving up.

YOu can see where the water is pooling up.




Will I need to rip out the tub to find the leak anyhow? I'm so frustrated with this thing. I have no one to ask, and no help from anyone, so I *really* could use some input.
Thank you very much.
Anne

[LazyPup]

YOu may still have a leak at the tub drain. You said you put plumbers putty under the flange, then put teflon tape on the treads. There should not be any teflon on those threads. It is okay to put a bit of plumbers grease on the threads, but often teflon will wad up and interfere with thread travel in those fine threads, which would prevent you from getting it tight enough.

You seem to have good access to work on the tub but it appears you have a mixture of brass, galvanized iron, and probably cast iron pipe in the sump. Judging by the extent of the corrosion that pipe would have to be cut out and replaced. It is not really as difficult as it sounds but i would need to know what kind of trap you have now and how it connects to the drain.

There also appears to be a vertical pipe on the left side of the tub coming up from the pit. I am assuming that is a vent pipe.

In order to determine what would be required to change the tub I would need to see the trap and drain connections in the pit. Perhaps you could take a picture looking down into the pit and i could see what you have.

[asprentz]

I am very thrilled that you'd take the time to help me. You have no idea how much I appreciate it. I took some more pictures down the hole. But, first let me tell you that I put the drain in and out many times, some without the plumbers tape, some with it, but the last time, the man at the hardware store told me to use plumbers putty. I did, and the leak seemed to be stopped. No, I didnt fill the tub up before checking to see several times if it leaked. I waited two days before putting any water in the tub and tried it several times for two more days, with no leaking noticed. IT was then I thought the leak was fixed and was preparing for a bath for the first time in almost 2 yrs. Imagine how upset I was. When we asked our kids what they wanted for X-mas, both girls asked for a tub...lol.. Unfortunately, hubby has no time, no inclination and no interest at all that the 3 women in the house want a tub. Luckily, we have another bathroom with a shower only. Ok, so now, here are the pics of the hole. By the way, when it was leaking all the other times, it was a slow leak. This last time, it was a gushing leak...well, it sounded like it was gushing, so I had to grab a bucket and start bailing before that hole filled up with water.





I hope you can see what you want to in this pic. It was a little hard getting the camera down there to snap off the pic.

Many thanks again!
Anne

[LazyPup]

From what i can see in the picture it appears the drain is a galvanized pipe running inline with the trap and going into the concrete wall of the pit.

If that is correct, you could cut the pipe leaving about 1 1/2" extending out and connect PVC to the iron pipe by means of a rubber "Fernco" coupling.

You would then need to install a sanitary wye with the side opening on the top to later connect to the vent. (Note-the wye is required because the code prohibits installing a sanitary tee with the side opening on top.)

From the wye you would need to install a short length of PVC pipe from the end of the Wye to the Trap. (Measure very carefully to insure the trap input is directly under the tub overflow.)

Install a male trap adapter on the input end of the trap, then a standard slip joint waste & overflow kit can be used on the tub.

Use to back to back street 1/8th bends, a length of PVC and a regular 1/8th bend to make an offset to the existing vent.

Cut the vent line and attach the PVC to the galvanized vent with a rubber "Fernco" coupling.

I have prepared an illustration to help you.

[asprentz]

Wonderful illustration! I think I can handle that, but now it brings up more questions. I'd probably need to shut the main water valve off to do this.... but I have no idea where that is. Lucky for me, I do have the blue prints of this house, so I'll have to dig them out to see if I can find out where the main water shut off is. Next question is...if I go to all the trouble to replace these pipes, wouldn't it make sense to install a new tub ( rip the old one out and have better exposure/more room to replace those pipes)? I can't use the tub anyhow, so it's not doing much good. I think the man who lived here before me put the tub in himself, pretty sure he did because he used.. get this.. electrical tape to tape the tub enclosure to the wall, and then wallpapered over that. I'm ignorant when it comes to this stuff, but I do know electrical tape should not have been used. What kind of saw would I need to use to saw that pipe off? And, just to be sure, all the pipes I need to replace can be pvc?

When I get this done, I will post pics, but it may take quite awhile for me to finish this job, and many more questions.

Thanks for your patience and for sharing your knowledge with me.

Anne

[LazyPup]

If you have a municipal water supply your main water shutoff valve shold be located at the water meter, if you have a well, the main is on the house side of the well pump pressure tank.

The final position of the trap is critical so I would begin by selecting the new tub to insure I had the exact rough in dimensions for the drain.

Before you seclect your new tub, measure the lenght overall (stud to stud) of the opening. (You could measure the tub enclosure wall to wall and add one inch to allow for sheetrock.)

Tubs are commonly available in 60" or 66" but can be special ordered in 54" overall.

I would definitely remove the old tub first to give more access area.

The two existing galvanized iron pipes can be easily cut with a reciprocating saw fitted with a metal cutting blade. (here is a tip, reciprocating saws wear out blades quickly. You will find that spending the extra money to buy a quality blade such as a Lenox or Dewalt is well worth the investment as they will outlast the cheap generics 3 to 1.)

[asprentz]

Thank you for all your great instruction. I think I will have to wait until spring to start this project. It's so muddy outside and wet and I don't want to be hauling stuff in and out ( esp. a tub) of my house and dragging the mud in. Maybe when it's nice I can open the windows, and when I am screaming profanities while working on this project some neighbor will hear me and take pity on me and offer to help. LOL... yeah, right!

[LazyPup]

If you anticipate a delay you can copy the photos to your computer to have the information.
To copy, put your cursor on the photo, right click the mouse, then hit "save image as"..you will then have to assign a file name and save into "my photos" or you can save it to your burner and burn it on a CD. You will then have it on your computer where you can open the file at any time and even print it out if that would help. (That is how I was able to put edits on your photos)