422 Modification?

[Hoodie]

I'm in the middle of replacing the burn chamber & ring on my 422 and have run into the unexpected. This unit has been rebuilt in the past by the local dealer that is now out of business so I'm SOL on finding out what he did. I do have a new burn chamber (#6182).

The problem is the difference between the two chambers where the fuel nozzle goes in. The old chamber has a long fuel nozzle & cover as pictured in the 441 parts list. The old nozzle will not fit in the new chamber and the new chamber came with a very short insert that does not protrude into the burn chamber. Did this guy put a 441 burn chamber into a 422 unit? If so, why and can I go back to the 6182 chamber I have with the short insert (nozzle)?

I've searched for pictures of the 422 burn chamber but no luck.

Thank you for your time!

[Hoodie]

Update

I've found pictures of the 441 pot and it is different than the 422. My existing pot is for a 422. I did see the fuel nozzle and cover in the 441 pot that looks exactly the same as the the I removed. I believe the hole was drilled larger to accommodate the bigger nozzle. Has anyone heard of this before?

[HayZee518]

not really but the fuel nozzle has a brass extension tube that channels the kero onto the burner pad about midway in the channel. you could try that.

[hawkins111]

fuel nozzle extension

There is a good chance someone used an extension to get the fuel to drip on to the mat closer to the center. A 441 extension might be too long. The normal M422 burner pot is just fine if you don’t want to mess around. Either way there must be an insert in the fuel nozzle. That is what seals the fuel line and fitting. No insert and you will have a leak. BTW, all vented heater except the M21,22 and 422 have a nozzle that extends into the pot some. Monitor even put one on their last 20K BTU unit M2200. I don’t think it would hurt.

Tom

[Hoodie]

Figured it out!

Thank you both for the replies. They were most helpful. The plus to living in a very small town is I asked around and got the phone # of the guy that rebuilt it. He told me that he used a 441 nozzle to try improve the burn but has since stopped doing so as it didn't improve the efficiency. He said he drilled out the feed hole so the nozzle would fit and feed fuel to the center of the mat.

I'll let you know how it works and Thank You for the information.
Doug

[HayZee518]

here is a supplier in upstate NY.
Adirondack Hardware - they are an aubuchon hardware store. They have parts for any monitor made.
phone number is 800-626-2688. They will ship anyplace.
It's a sorry case when service techs start making field modifications to a proven product to try to improve it. A guy ran a business in Maine and did just that. AND bad mouthed monitor all the way. He's not around anymore.

[Stayouttadabunker]

Can I post pictures here?
I have pictures of both burner Models...

[Stayouttadabunker]

May I ask, what is the "burner mat" made of?

[HayZee518]

the burner mat is made of a ceramic fiber. I noticed you are in Malone. I'm just up 11B in St Regis Falls. Take a ride to Mullarney's. Ask them for a burner mat. They got 'em in a plastic bag. A new one will run you about 45 bucks. I got a piece of a ceramic fiber from McMaster-Carr industrial supply. I'll give you what piece(s) I have.

[Stayouttadabunker]

Thanks...I just glued some in the base of the burner 20 minutes ago...


lol

I know Mullarney's...I've been there on the way to the golf club at Highland Greens!
They sold me two exhaust O-Rings for $6 and they were the wrong size.
I went to True-Value Hardware and bought the correct-sized O-Ring (high-heat rated) for .96 cents each...

Ceramic paper sheets ( roughly 3/16" or closer to 1/4" thick) are available at Hulbert's in Malone behind the Courthouse off of Main St.
I bought a piece the fella cut off from a roll that measures 1'x3'
and cut out all the ceramic gaskets I need for under $6.

Mullarney's, Adirondack Hardware and elsewhere (ebay for example) sell little
pre-cut pieces at about a 600% mark-up!

Maybe it's the high price of the plastic packaging wrap?

Anyways, I attached a photo of the thermistor flame sensor below - when re-installing it, does it point "upwards" ...uh...like in front of the viewing glass?
Because of it's square slot for the holding bracket - it seems that's the only direction it will install?

ADD>>> How does one post a picture? lol

Okay, I figured it out...
Click on photo to make larger if needed...>>>

[HayZee518]

flame rod goes down between the burner ring and side of the pot. in your photo the tip of the flame rod should be straight, not bent like you show. also, the burner mat material you mention is too thick! 3/16" is too thick! I used to have an M41 till I got fed up with the sooting because of a blower motor. I replaced the motor in mine about 6 yrs ago. Dam thing cost $146. So, two years ago I got hold of DSS and the HEAP office and they replaced the heater for free. Besides after Mularney's delivered it the guy paid me 45 bucks to install it. He said I knew more about the heaters than his service staff. COMMlinks put in a propane jobbie last winter, also free, but boy does that thing consume propane!

[hawkins111]

OEM parts

I’m a firm believer in the dealer system. If you would use a Monitor dealer for your Monitor parts, the dealer would be around longer. Using other than OEM stuff is a crap shoot. Get the correct burner mat from a dealer and he will also have the correct glue. He may even give you some good hints on how to correctly install it. The flame sensor in your picture is off a M422 or M22. The angle at the bottom is on everyone of that model. The flame sensor should be pointed downward. When you install it you will notice the sensor is at two angles. The top angles off to the right. The bottom angle brings the sensor straight down between the burner and the ring. You are going to need a burner ring as well as a mat. To think of it you are going to need a gasket on top of the burner, Igniter and igniter cover gasket as well as a flame sensor gasket. If you are confident with your work you may not need a window frame gasket. The first time it’s a good idea to have one so you can see exactly where the flame sensor is in relation to the pot and ring. Remember, if you are riding on a Boeing, you can bet that they didn’t get their repair parts from McMasters.

Tom

[HayZee518]

You are firm believer in the monitor system because you ARE a dealer! You were the first person to bad mouth me because I had [have]a service manual. If I'm so off the walls, how come the local monitor supplier PAID ME to install a heater he delivered to me?

[Stayouttadabunker]

Quit fighting in the sandbox guys! We're here to help each other out! lol

Anyways, I agree w/Hawkins in that the MPI422 flame rod is correctly bent -
because I removed it that way. Thanks!
I re-installed it facing downwards and made sure it was
not grounding out to any other metal in the can.

I measured the ceramic fiber paper I bought from Hulbert's.
It is between 1/8" to 5/64".
It is EXACTLY the same as the gaskets I removed from my MPI 422 monitor,
exception: the thick ceramic fiber cloth underneath the burner chamber
is much thicker, more like a 1/4' or 5/16".
It is very compression-able...if that's a word?
The screws compress the material very nicely and tightly.
You can actually squeeze it like Bounty paper towels, or common household sponge... lol
The OEM gaskets are horribly overpriced, in my opinion. Total rip offs!
I replaced all 14 gaskets for under $6.
The bottle of glue cost about $4.75 and is way too much quantity for what I needed to do
but maybe it will still be good for the next time I need it.
I still more than 3/4 amount of glue in the bottle.

After gluing all the gaskets into place
and replacing the original screws with stainless steel screws,
I started up the monitor and let it burn off
the gasket film, and glue residue.
It stunk for awhile but it did NOT smell like kerosene!

Now the rebuilt monitor is fully in use and running cleanly.
There's nice warm heat coming out
and there's absolutely NO kerosene fumes!
It's also nice to actually see the blue flame through a clean glass!

In the end, I find that it is NOT necessary to buy OEM parts all the time
when you can fabricate parts such as gaskets, if you get access
to the right materials - after all, where do you think Monitor got these materials from?
They buy the SAME STUFF like I did but in bulk quantities!
I agree that it is a crap shoot when buying other than OEM parts
but we're not dummies and go out and waste money on over-priced parts
when there are smarter and more economical ways to go about this.
Some things, not all - can be replaced responsibly and work exceptionally.
If one completely understands how a monitor works, you can see that
there are definitely ways to save money to rebuild it and still have
a very efficient, working heater.

BTW This is only a kerosene heater - not a jet!
Attached below are some pictures of new stainless steel screws
and the ceramic fiber paper with me squeezing it to try to show
how easy it is to compress the material...
Click on any photo to make larger if needed...>>>

[dfitz3390]

when you said the hardware store gave you the wrong O rings, were they too big or what ?