Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 27

Thread: One Doorbell Button with 4 Doorbells/Chimes

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Saint Regis Falls, NY, USA.
    Posts
    8,740
    Thanks {vb:rawphrase post_thanks_given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    484
    Thanked in
    470 Posts

    doorbell

    ok, a transformer is a coil. matter of fact two coils wound right on top of the other. they are wound around an iron core. the coils have resistance, but because of an iron core they now also have impedance. impedance is the opposition to flow at a given frequency. in this case 60 Hertz or 60 cycles. Loudspeakers have a coil around a magnet which is iron or ceramic or incalloy. speakers have impedance also, like resistance, measured in ohms. if the impedance isn't perfectly balanced then the resulting total impedance presents a load on the line which may in time overheat and draw excessive current. eventually it will burn out. a buck-boost eliminates this problem. it too has impedance but it is not in parallel with any other device. another thing, in a transformer there is a 180 degree phase shift from the input voltage. for a parallel connection like nestor stated, the input winding must be wound in the same direction as all the others and there's no way to tell if they are - the secondaries of all the other transformers may be 180 degrees out of synch with each other.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to HayZee518 For This Useful Post:

    1BadBoy (05-22-2012)

  3. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    155
    Thanks {vb:rawphrase post_thanks_given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    7
    Thanked in
    7 Posts
    I've never heard of a "buck boost" transformer so I can hardly recommend that Bad Boy use one. I know multiple identical transformers wired in parallel will work, so that's what I was suggesting. If one "buck boost" transformer will replace several lower power transformers, that'd be the way to go. I just don't want to tell the guy to use something that I've never used and have no experience with.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Nestor For This Useful Post:

    1BadBoy (05-22-2012)

  5. #13
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    11
    Thanks {vb:rawphrase post_thanks_given 
    2
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by HayZee518 View Post
    ok, a transformer is a coil. matter of fact two coils wound right on top of the other. they are wound around an iron core. the coils have resistance, but because of an iron core they now also have impedance. impedance is the opposition to flow at a given frequency. in this case 60 Hertz or 60 cycles. Loudspeakers have a coil around a magnet which is iron or ceramic or incalloy. speakers have impedance also, like resistance, measured in ohms. if the impedance isn't perfectly balanced then the resulting total impedance presents a load on the line which may in time overheat and draw excessive current. eventually it will burn out. a buck-boost eliminates this problem. it too has impedance but it is not in parallel with any other device. another thing, in a transformer there is a 180 degree phase shift from the input voltage. for a parallel connection like nestor stated, the input winding must be wound in the same direction as all the others and there's no way to tell if they are - the secondaries of all the other transformers may be 180 degrees out of synch with each other.
    Electronics is not my forte, but I think I grasp what you are saying:

    If I installed transformers that didn't match (e.g. different output, manufacturers, models, etc.), that could cause problems between the disparate transformers potentially causing them to overheat (with the potential for fire too) and/or wear out prematurely.

    However, if I installed identical transformers (e.g. same output, manufacturer, model, etc.), the transformers theoretically should be in sync. And in that scenario, they should work without the potential for the issues stated above, correct?

    I understand about manufacturing tolerances to know that the transformers will never *exactly* match, but they should be so close as to not cause the issues described with unmatched transformers - at least I *think* that would be the case.

    Am I correct in this thinking?

  6. #14
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    11
    Thanks {vb:rawphrase post_thanks_given 
    2
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestor View Post
    I've never heard of a "buck boost" transformer so I can hardly recommend that Bad Boy use one. I know multiple identical transformers wired in parallel will work, so that's what I was suggesting. If one "buck boost" transformer will replace several lower power transformers, that'd be the way to go. I just don't want to tell the guy to use something that I've never used and have no experience with.
    Hi Nestor. I've never heard of a "Buck-Boost" transformer either. And Google hasn't helped much at this point. I've found a lot of information regarding Buck Boost transformers, but nothing in regards to using one for a doorbell.

    HayZee518: in all fairness to Nestor, I believe he was just answering my question about how one connects transformers in parallel. With that said, I'm definitely interested in learning more about using a Buck Boost transformer for my doorbell system if it will allow me to use a single transformer. Do you have any more information or specific Buck Boost transformers that could be used in my scenario? Based on the va requirements of one doorbell I saw at Home Depot, it was rated as 10va I believe. If I had 4 of those, I'm guessing I'd need a 40va Buck Boost transformer. How can I locate one of these?

  7. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Saint Regis Falls, NY, USA.
    Posts
    8,740
    Thanks {vb:rawphrase post_thanks_given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    484
    Thanked in
    470 Posts

    buck-boost

    typically a buck-boost transformer is used to increase or decrease line voltage by electrically adding or subtracting voltage from the applied voltage. say if you had a 208 circuit that you had to run at 240 volts absolutely, then a buck-boost would be wired into the circuit to provide that extra 32 volts.
    Jefferson Electric has buck-boost transformers available online, and I'm sure electrical suppliers have them too!
    Nestor - do your homework - go find a buck-boost and read about it.
    I've used a buck-boost setup where I had a three phase soda can crusher from Germany and needed to reduce the line voltage of 240 to 208. Two such transformers were needed.
    If you look on their chart, a .050kva transformer will satisfy the 50 va requirement. KVA means Kilo Volt Amperes or One thousand volt amps. if you move the decimal point three places to the right, you'll get 50va. its just like dividing by one thousand.
    Last edited by HayZee518; 05-22-2012 at 11:45 PM.

  8. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    155
    Thanks {vb:rawphrase post_thanks_given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    7
    Thanked in
    7 Posts
    BadBoy:

    Sure, if you can simplify your wiring and save some money by using a single buck-boost transformer rather than multiple regular 40 VA transformers, that would be the way I'd go.

    Probably the way I'd check into them is to e-mail Jefferson Electric tech support, tell them what you're wanting to do, and confirm with them that one of their buck-boost transformers will fit the bill.

    But, like I say, I have absolutely no experience with buck-boost transformers and so I really can't advise you one way or the other about them*. If they'll do what you want, the only question now would be the cost.

    *Note:
    although I'm not one to let my not knowing anything about a subject stand in the way of my speaking authoritatively to others about it; often at considerable length

  9. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Saint Regis Falls, NY, USA.
    Posts
    8,740
    Thanks {vb:rawphrase post_thanks_given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    484
    Thanked in
    470 Posts

    doorbell

    Nestor, this isn't the only forum Bad Boy's been looking into. He also has multiple questions in DIY Chat, so nothing in here [or there] is really concrete yet. I'll leave the choice up to him. I did look into the Nutone site and they have 10va transformers with 120 volt primaries for about $12 a piece. They also seem to want to push wireless chime units.

  10. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    155
    Thanks {vb:rawphrase post_thanks_given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    7
    Thanked in
    7 Posts
    Well, that's OK. There's nothing wrong with getting multiple opinions.

    And, it's seldom that you don't change your plan somewhat during the planning stages anyway. After all, that's when you're actively seeking out new products and ideas to incorporate into your design.

    So I realize there isn't anything carved in stone here yet.

    Another thing I was going to mention but forgot was that about 3 years ago I was thinking of adding an intercom system to my building as we don't have one. Manitoba Telephone Systems is now offering a wireless intercom for apartment blocks that works on cell phone technology that BadBoy might be interested in using. Essentially, this intercom system is a cell phone combined with a computer. You program the computer to dial the tenant's home phone number when his posted intercom number is punched in. The intercom simply phones the tenant's apartment, and so you don't need to wire the building with intercom wiring (or door bell wiring). The only difference is that the phone rings instead of the door chime, but you can program the intercom system to have a different ring tone than the regular ring tone so the tenant knows which is a regular phone call and when it's someone at the apartment block entrance. Also, if there's no answer at the tenant's home phone after X number of rings, the intercom then hangs up and dials a second phone number, like a work phone number or a cell phone number. That way, if the tenant isn't home he knows that someone is at his apartment wanting to talk to him and he can either make arrangements to meet that person later or tell them he's not interested in what they're selling anyway.

    I'm thinking that instead of having multiple door chimes in his house, BadBoy might consider a simple intercom system that uses cell phone technology to ring his home phone number, and simply have a phone jack in almost every room of the house (which he's probably thinking about doing anyway). And, there are multiple advantages to having an intercom system that uses the telephone system rather than door chimes. If there's no response by X number of rings on the home phone, the intercom will automatically dial another phone number, like Bad Boy's cell phone. That way if you've got an appliance repairman coming to fix a washer on a certain day, you don't have to wait at home to let them in. You can just answer the phone and tell him the door key is taped to the underside of the mail box, or whatever. If it's UPS at the door with a parcel, you can tell them over the phone to just leave it behind the central air conditioner where no one else will see it, and you don't have to be waiting at home all day for the delivery. And, of course, a burglar will always ring the doorbell of any house he's about to break into. The burglar is testing to see if there's anyone home or a large dog living in the house. If he hears nothing, he knows the chances are better than 50/50 the coast is clear. If someone comes to the door, then he tries to sell them a magazine subscription or convince them to commit their lives to Jehovah. BUT, if he just gets someone responding "Hello" over the intercom, he doesn't know if that person is inside the house or talking to him from work downtown or from his cell phone in his car. In a case like that, the burglar is more inclined to play it safe and just move on to a house with a conventional door bell that's going to give him the information about the house he wants.

    I'm just thinking that if they have intercoms that use cell phone technology for apartment blocks now, then there's a very good chance that someone has a similar thing for high end homes, and that's something BadBoy might want to use INSTEAD of multiple door chimes. After all, a door chime is 1950's technology and is extremely limited in what it can do. An intercom that uses telephone technology allows you to "answer your door" regardless of where you are, and that allows you to do things you otherwise couldn't do, like tell someone who rings your door bell that you're running late but should be home in 10 minutes, so to just wait there for you. Or, you can answer your door bell and tell someone that you're not home even though you are, and they'll walk away believing you really aren't home. Let's face it; door bell technology hasn't changed since the 1950's but telephone technology certainly has. Why stick with 1950's technology if you can just as easily and economically have a system that will allow you to answer your door from anywhere in your local calling area?
    Last edited by Nestor; 05-23-2012 at 09:59 PM.

  11. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Saint Regis Falls, NY, USA.
    Posts
    8,740
    Thanks {vb:rawphrase post_thanks_given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    484
    Thanked in
    470 Posts

    dorrbell

    yah that makes sense. thanks for the input. I was going to use X10 technology here at my house and run everything off my computer but during a power outage, nothing would work. even with a ups you are going to have only about 6 hours of working time.

  12. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    155
    Thanks {vb:rawphrase post_thanks_given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    7
    Thanked in
    7 Posts
    I'm just thinking that if it were my house, I'd opt for an intercom system over a doorbell. In most houses a door bell is all you need. But if BadBoy wants to substantially change his existing doorbell system as he's been talking about, I think it would be better to do away with the door bell entirely and use the telephone system to alert him of both incoming phone calls and visitors to his house. That's relatively easy to do and it makes it possible for him to "answer the door" bell even when he's not home, and that's an advantage in my books because we have all been inconvenienced having to stay home all day because the furniture delivery men can't narrow it down any better than between 8:00 AM and 5:30 PM. If you can talk to the furniture delivery guys when they get to your house and tell them where to find the key and where to put the couch, life on days like that would be so much easier.

    And, if someone presses your door bell button to see if you're home, they're going to think you are if there's a response. It's only when there's no response to the door bell button that they know you're not home, so a telephone based intercom system provides some degree of home security tossed in free of charge.
    Last edited by Nestor; 05-24-2012 at 01:14 AM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •