Monitor M441 - Fires up - goes out...

[Linneus]

I've had this Monitor M441 since it was new (1997) and it has worked well for us. Had one service tech put in a new burn mat and recondition everything in 2003 and now I am having problems with it once again but have worked on it without the service tech and with the help of this website.

It has been recently taken apart and cleaned of soot, fuel lines bled of air, new filters, air intake checked, flame rod cleaned etc., but I have been concerned with the yellow flame we are getting. Once put back together it worked fine except for the flame being yellow and not blue. Now, a month later it will not fire up correctly. We never changed the mat and I am wondering if that is the problem now.

It goes through its purge, then the fire ring starts lighting and looks fired up on one side but very little on the right as you look into the pot. It then shuts off fuel before the fan kicks in and in a few minutes we get the flashing light (not error code). Could this mean we need a new mat in the burn pot? Is there something else we can check?

[HayZee518]

when the flame starts out as blue and the burner ring glows red/orange, then the flame changes very suddenly to yellow, that means that water is trying to burn with the fuel. the flamerod will detect the absence of flame and will lockout the computer and shut down. turn off the heater, unplug it and plug it back in. bleed off any water in the sump with the large screw and start the heater again. another reason for yellow flame is insufficient combustion air or a blocked air inlet. check outside for an ice blockage around the pipe. inlet air is the surround pipe, exhaust is the center pipe. over the span of around 10 hrs I must've bled out three ounces of water from my sump, but it fires up after I bleed it off.

[Linneus]

When the fire ring starts its a yellow flame and it has trouble going around the ring. It is very bright and high on the left side of the ring and diminishes low to none on the right side. It never gets to the point of going to a blue flame. I have the air intake off and it is taking air directly from the interior of the house. I can feel the pull of the air going in so I believe it is getting enough airflow unless there is another place I need to look to check air intake.

[HayZee518]

the double pipe is the only way pressurized air can get into the combustion chamber. unless as you described, removing the hose. flame on one side would indicate the burner mat is up on one side causing the flare up. a distorted burner ring will also cause that. take apart the chamber and look inside.

[Linneus]

Thanks, I suspected I would need to replace the burner mat at least, and now the ring too. Probably the whole pot. *sigh* This is a great forum with good advice. I will keep you up to date about this cold house. Thank goodness we have a wood heater.

Where can I get the items I need to rebuild the firepot guts? Is there a place I can buy the whole thing to put in myself?

[HayZee518]

look in recent past threads. hawkins111 from bethel alaska high lighted several parts sources. I know of one in NY - Adirondack hardware in Keeseville NY. They have a site.

[Linneus]

Ok sent for all the overhaul parts, now we shall see what comes of it. Thanks for the advice!

[Linneus]

The heater parts came today and my old heater is repaired! It works so much better. It's been years since I've seen the burner glow like that. I bought a new burn chamber rebuild kit from Ebay, it came with all the gaskets, a new mat glued down as well. ($199)

I also bought a Monitor service manual - $25 on Ebay. It's a photo copy but is clear and understandable. Thanks for all the help gentlemen, my house is warm and toasty now without having to go split wood for the wood stove.

[Linneus]

UPDATE: After a nice couple days with heater working well in economy mode it got warm enough that the heater shut off, but when the house cooled down and it cycled on I got the same blinking light!?! Fuel pump seems to be working well, air seems to be alright, the burner lights fine with a blue flame but before the fan and before the pot can start glowing it shuts things down. I can get it to cycle through and work if I reset it by turning the heater off and switching off the electricity but it seems to be a mystery once again.

I hate to think my electronics are screwed up. Any ideas?

[HayZee518]

I have gone through a system reset everytime I get the 88:88 indication after burner shutdown. unplug the unit to reset the computer. what happened to mine is that water would get into the sump, the solenoid pump would pump it into the chamber and you'd get the bright yellow/white and it would shutdown. so, you bleed all the water out of the sump and restart it until it gets that slug of water again - and - do it all over. make sure your outside tank is pitched back away from the outlet. that way any water and solids won't enter the fuel line to the heater. you may need to rod out the fuel line with a piece of flexible wire like thhn.

[Linneus]

The ongoing saga: I can run the heater on economy mode and it runs fine but if it shuts off it will not restart. It goes through the purge cycle, the lighting cycle and then the fuel shuts off and the red light blinks. I can see the burner ring light with a blue flame but it is not very big but the heater SHOULD start. Instead it shuts the fuel off and never gets to the stage where the fan kicks in. The heater, while running, is hotter than it was before the work we put into it. My cat loves to sleep on top of the heater where it was mildly warm but lately, when it's heating, the cabinet is almost too hot to put my hand on it without a glove. (I'm not sure how the cat can take this!) I think the heater is getting too hot and shuts off the fuel flow and my neighbor thinks its the switches that measure the heat (the klixons attached to the interior cabinet). There is no obstruction around the heater, the dust and webs from years of neglect were cleaned out so I know everything is clean, yet it still shuts down. What more can I do to make sure there is no overheating problem?

[hawkins111]

flame sensor by pass

Linneus,

Use your new manual and make up a flame sensor by-pass. Try to start your stove with the O connector removed and the by pass installed. As the fuel pump comes on (status lights light up) connect the other end to ground or the N connector (same thing). The stove now thinks there is a flame in the pot. You should see a flame as well. The stove will now pump fuel and run as normal. Be sure to confirm a flame is in the pot. No flame and you must remove the by pass and stop. Without a flame and the by pass connected the stove will continue to pump fuel into the burner forever. If your stove is turning off due to soot or carbon on the flame rod, it will run with the by pass on. If this is the case you have a sooting problem, burner mat problem or burner ring issues. If you don’t see a flame very quickly, you have a fuel or igniter issue. If you are worried about the procedure the first time, remove the fuel line at the burner and try the by pass. You can make the stove run as if there is fuel and a flame in the pot.


The circulating fan should come on within 6 minutes or so of a successful start. It only take a minute on Med for the stove to overheat.


Stay warm,

Tom

[Linneus]

Is it possible the sensors are bad? Is an overheat caused by not having the fan turn on? The fuel does go into the pot and a flame is present for a minute or two. The fuel does pump in so I know the pump is good. It just shuts off the fuel after a minute. I'll check the manual and see if I can set up that test Tom. Thanks. Oh, and where can I find those sensors?

[Linneus]

Well I think it's time for a new heater... After working on it a bit, cleaning the firepot out again, the fan starts and runs all the time when the heater is plugged in?!? Then the fuel pump stopped working, no juice to it, when there used to be before. And now the controls will not work. Sounds to me as if the board went gunnybag. Anyone have an idea on what heater I should look for to replace this 441?

[hawkins111]

improper wiring

Linneus,

You have the over heat and fan switches wired improper. You may also have the indicator panel connectors only part way in. Use your manual and check them out. Get your flame sensor bypass going and test your unit. What ever you have going on, its not that big a deal. There is no need to get a new heater, you can fix the one you have. Stay with it.

Tom